By AJ Eversole

I’m happy to introduce award-winning author, Nikki Grimes, and her co-author, with her debut picture book, Stacy Wells! They were happy to talk about their process, their creativity, and how their diverse perspectives came together to create the gorgeous new picture book Stronger Than, illustrated by E.B. Lewis (Heartdrum, 2026).

This book represents a unique collaboration between you two. Can you tell us how your partnership began and what made you decide to work together on this particular story?

NG: I first created the character Dante in the early 1990s after research for my picture book biography, Talkin’ About Bessie, taught me that Bessie’s father was Choctaw. I couldn’t remember ever having read a story featuring a Black Indigenous character, and so decided to write one. That story ended up in my files, only to be rediscovered in recent years, when I was sorting through files.

I was excited about the possibility of revisiting this character, and this story, but wasn’t sure if it would be appropriate, as we now are concerned with the importance of own-stories. I called my friend, Cynthia Leitich Smith, for counsel on whether to simply archive this manuscript or find an authentic way to move forward as a non-Native author. Cyn came up with two possible approaches, one of which was to collaborate with a Choctaw author, and she had someone in mind: Stacy Wells. She put us in touch with each other, and we clicked immediately, deciding to give this revamp a go. Since the family of characters in the story were Black and Native, it was a perfect story for this particular collaboration.

SW: The story of Stronger Than began with Nikki several years earlier as she worked on another project. I enter the story in the summer of 2022; on a day I was walking my dog in the nature center close to my home. My phone rang in the middle of the woods, and it was Cynthia Leitich Smith.

At that time, we weren’t phone friends and I panicked, trying to answer her call while keeping a firm hold of the leash. Phone friends or not, when Cynthia called one answered with haste. She asked two questions that changed the course of my career, “Do you know Nikki Grimes?” and “Do you want to work on a project with her?”

As a librarian, I knew Nikki Grimes and her work. And as a writer who had recently read and took to heart Shonda Rimes book Year of Yes, I answered quickly with two wholehearted yeses. Of course, I panicked again after the call ended.

Working with Nikki came naturally. There was never any hesitation, more an understanding about the importance of the story to be told. 

Stacy, as a member of the Choctaw Nation, what was most important to you to contribute to this story about a Black Choctaw boy?

SW: This opportunity between Nikki and I meant more than just my career but a tangible cross-cultural story that needed more light, more acknowledgement within the world at large. So, it was important that the story and backmatter be historically accurate and authentically told as possible.

How did you divide the creative responsibilities?  Can you elaborate on this process?

NG: Since the story began with me, I continued with that responsibility, while Stacy was tasked with creating the all-important back matter. That decided, we nevertheless each contributed to both story and back matter.

I relied on Stacy for Choctaw language, details about cultural elements, etc. On the other side of things, I contributed ideas and information for the back matter.  It was a dance, and our goal was simply to create the best book possible.

SW: Nikki and I set the parameters early on in our first meeting. She would write the story, and I would write the backmatter, however we both would collaborate on the story itself. For my role, I researched setting, language, historical facts and the like.

What inspired you to focus on a Black Choctaw character, and why was it important to represent this specific cultural intersection in children’s literature?

NG: I had never come across a Black Indigenous character in children’s literature, and that was reason enough for me. I believe that all children should have the experience of seeing themselves in the pages of a book, and I’m always working toward that end. Sometimes that means focusing on Black characters engaging in nature, because I don’t see enough of that in children’s books, or featuring a character of an unrepresented intersectionality, like Dante.  There are still far too many people groups unrepresented, or underrepresented in children’s literature. I’d like to put a dent in that number, and have an eye toward doing more books with that in mind.

The title Stronger Than suggests resilience and overcoming challenges. What message do you hope children take away from Dante’s journey?

NG: Resilience and overcoming challenges are threads you’ll find in most of my books, no matter the title or the theme. Here, my hope is that readers will recognize, or perhaps develop an interest in learning about, the strength that comes from their own ancestry. I want them to understand the strength within them, a strength that they can call on, once they know it is there.

Nikki, you’ve written about the ethical considerations of writing characters outside of your direct cultural experience. How did your collaboration with Stacy address these considerations?

NG: When you write about a culture from the outside, research, no matter how rigorous, can only give you the broad strokes of that culture.  Getting in touch with, and expressing the subtle nuances, though, that’s an inside job. Stacy was my insider. 

I’ve lived in two different cultures outside of North America: Tanzania and Sweden. In both, I developed fluency in the language, and learned that the last thing you grasp in a foreign culture, and communicating in a foreign language, is humor. Humor is very much an insider thing, and you have to live in a culture to begin to feel and appreciate their humor. When I saw an Ingmar Bergman film in Sweden for the first time, I laughed when no one else did, and the Swedish audience laughed when I didn’t. But, by the time I left Sweden, I laughed along with the rest of the audience, because I had finally internalized their sense of humor. I got it. In working on Stronger Than in collaboration with Stacy, I had a shortcut to arriving at an insider perspective. You can see that in the closing lines of the story, words I would not have intuited without that collaboration.

We come from people stronger than fear,
stronger than nightmares,
stronger than anything.
This is who our family is.
This is who we are.

Does that make sense?

The book is published under Heartdrum, HarperCollins’ Native focused imprint. How did working with this imprint shape the development of the book?

SW: Heartdrum is a unique imprint that actively centers Native voices and authenticity, carrying a greater responsibility and awareness of the nuances of being Native, like intersectionality, when sharing those stories with young readers.

Cynthia Leitich Smith and Rosemary Brosnan are both powerhouses that work together to amplify these voices to curate culturally grounded stories that both celebrate and reflect contemporary Native experiences with integrity and respect.

How did your backgrounds, Nikki as a celebrated poet and author, and Stacy as a children’s librarian and author, influence your approaches to crafting this story?

SW: I brought a lot of youth librarian enthusiasm (iykyk) and threw around ideas like I was giving out book recommendations. I may be jesting a bit but not too much.  

What research did you each undertake to ensure historical accuracy in portraying both the Black and Choctaw experiences in this story?

NG: I researched games, both in books and on video, because I needed games these children would commonly play, and I discovered Choctaw football. I also researched foods, flora, and fauna native to the region in which the story takes place—the usual. I also did additional reading up on the Trail of Tears and the Tulsa Race Massacre. I wanted to encourage readers to do some digging on t heir own, and so I planted some seeds in the form of character names. For the Black ancestor, I borrowed the name of an actual survivor of the Tulsa Race Massacre, found online.

For the Native ancestor, I asked Stacy for the name of one of her ancestors because I wanted both characters to be based on someone real. I chose Dawes as Dante’s surname because the Dawes Act was designed to break up tribal lands, forces assimilation, and create opportunities for land-grabs by white settlers. Natives lost approximately 90 million acres of land as a result. This was an important part of the history of Native Americans, and I sought to draw readers’ attention to it. By using these names in the text, I provided opportunities for this history to be included in the back matter, which Stacy handled ably. Our work in this regard was mostly subtle, but it’s there for anyone who’s looking.

My character, Dante, was young and only beginning to learn some important details about his culture, about the history of his ancestors. So he and I were both new to a lot of this. That made the approach more fundamental for me. Had my character been a teen, he’d have had been  much more deeply ingrained in his culture, and that would have necessitated a much deeper dive for me, both because of his age, and because the work would have been middle grade fiction. Such a book requires many more layers than a picture book does.

What was the most challenging aspect of creating this book, and how did you overcome it together?

SW: For me, it was the opportunity to work with such an experienced and acclaimed author who understood story at a depth I hadn’t yet achieved. I absorbed everything, took careful notes, and elevated my work to meet Nikki’s standards. That meant believing in myself enough to attempt things I’d never done before.

How do you hope this book contributes to the growing body of diverse literature for children?

NG: I hope it encourages other authors to explore intersectional stories, in general, and my particular dream is to have our work encourage more Indigenous authors, and especially Black Indigenous authors, to write stories of their own. There are children waiting for these stories, children starving for stories in which they can see themselves reflected.

Stacy, this is your debut picture book. How has co-authoring with Nikki influenced your approach to your forthcoming solo works?

SW: Working alongside Nikki leveled up my writing, my storytelling, and my confidence. Our book is beautiful. Our time together was, and still is, beautiful. I’ll never forget what Nikki has given me. It makes me think of that saying: two heads are better than one.

While I have two solo picture books coming over the next couple of years (that I absolutely love-love), you don’t co-author a book and walk away never to collaborate again, at least I don’t.

Community and collaboration are my heritage gifts. I not-so-secretly hope there are more co-authored projects in my future.

What advice would you give to creators looking to collaborate across cultural backgrounds to tell authentic, respectful stories?

NG: Get to know each other. Develop a bond, a friendship. This kind of work requires vulnerability, sensitivity, trust. Those things have to be built in order for the work to go well. In the beginning, I think it’s helpful to determine what each artist will focus on.

Eventually, each author will touch every part of the book, but the process of getting to that point moves more smoothly and clearly if each author’s initial role or part is clearly defined. Once each has nailed down a body of work, it’s easier to then start overlapping.

Of course, open communication throughout is key. And lean on one another’s knowledge and expertise when it comes to cultural specifics. It’s that combined knowledge and expertise which makes the work deeper, richer, and more layered than would otherwise be, not to mention more authentic. I certainly hope to do more of this work, going forward!

SW: Nikki said it wonderfully, about how to work with another author. Especially a partnership as unbalanced as we were, career wise. She brought grace and understanding, I brought unbound energy and a learner’s heart.

Cynsational Notes:

New York Times bestselling author Nikki Grimes was inducted into the Black Authors Hall of Fame in 2023. Her honors include the CSK Virginia Hamilton Lifetime Achievement Award, the ALAN Award for significant contributions to young adult literature, the Children’s Literature Legacy Medal, and the NCTE Award for Excellence in Poetry for Children. Author of the Coretta Scott King Award-winner Bronx Masquerade, and five Coretta Scott King Author Honors, she won the Printz Honor and Sibert Honor for her memoir Ordinary Hazards. Her latest titles include Garvey’s Choice: The Graphic Novel, a School Library Journal 2023 Best Book; Lullaby for the King, one of Book Riot’s 25 Best Christmas Books of All Time; and A Walk in the Woods, recipient of eight starred reviews, and 11 Best Book listings for 2023, including the New York Times, NPR, and Smithsonian Magazine. Ms. Grimes lives in Corona, California.

Stacy Wells is a member of the Choctaw Nation and writes books for kids and teens, including the Tana Cooks chapter book series (Capstone). Her narratives center community and family, with an emphasis on self-discovery and the power of finding your voice. She tells these stories through an Indigenous lens with humor and joy. In her spare time, Stacy enjoys napping and gardening. She is a pro napper but is terrible at keeping plants alive. She hopes one day that will change. Until then, she lives life to the fullest in North Texas with her family, which includes a red dog named Blu and two very adorable but very mischievous ferrets.

A.J. Eversole grew up in rural Oklahoma where the wide open spaces fed her imagination. An enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation, she works across adult and children’s literature to explore themes of cultural reclamation, resilience, and the ways ancestral knowledge persists in modern worlds. Her stories appear in Legendary Frybread Drive-In (Heartdrum/HarperCollins), Beyond the Glittering World (Torrey House Press), and the forthcoming Never Whistle At Night Part II. When not writing, she reports on Native voices in literature for Cynsations.